The last month has been exciting. We've been out on the streets and trying to get things done!
There have been interventions and the news media has encouraged the project.
There have been several email responses to the project in the last couple of days, some of which I will be putting up on the Blank Noise blog.
On clothes and 'ASKING FOR IT'
hi,
how can u defend urself about the dresses the gals used 2 wearin mg roads & other roads whoch r very excotong for men & i thonk only a5 to15% of gals wear the full covered dresses!
Mr Nag Raj
what do you mean by the dresses are too exciting for men?are you implying that women should not be dressed in a way that theylike because men cannot control their sexual urge??looking forward to hearing from you .will open this topic for debate on the blog.
20 comments:
the supreme kourt has already ruled that women kannot be held responsible as refered to by mr Nag Raj
Nag Raj is hilarious. I wonder if he wears full covered dresses (or is it drosses?) to keep women from getting excoted :)
women cannot be held totally responsible. though in some cases girls also provoke the men. like for eg: i had noticed during rides in buses that girls start commenting about a guy & resort to adam teasing. the incidents of adam teasing is miniscule while compared to eve teasing.
if theres anyway in which i/we can contribute do let us know.
well as i mentioned earlier, this is perceived as a 'woman's issue' and not as something that men do face. street sexual violence occurs between all kinds of groups
-male to female
-female to male
-male to male
-female to female
-adult to child
As they say, never argue with a fool - for he drags you down to his level and beats you wiuth experience.
Good for you - I'd heard of this project a couple of months ago on a different blog (the livejournal bangalore community), and it seems like you are making mark.
Arvindh
- And you can blame all the coffee I spilt on the keyboard for all those misspelt words.
I do agree that nobody can have a rule to say 'U shld dress like that ' ..But isn't a fact that we lock our doors to save ourselves from theives ?
Atleast for you own protection from some male population who are not disciplined,girls have to dress a bit carefully .How much is something nobody can define! - It depends from one society to another .
But to dress 'only' to attract men and expect all men to behave decently is just a case of contradiction.But the issue is totally subjective ,so i don't think Naga Raj has any point in that protest .
to attract- attraction- lends itself from being mutual.0
when we are talking about street sexual harassment..we are dealing with violation of the self.
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Q. What role does a woman's clothing (and hence a woman's choice)play towards her being groped?
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A. It is reasonable to assume that the "probability of being groped" does have some relation to the "clothing of the victim". Of course, clothing is not the sole or even, perhaps, a major determinant towards "being groped"; however, there is indeed a causual relationship between harassment and the type of clothing: i.e, wearing certain types of clothes does enhance the chances of being groped.
Since a woman has the choice to wear or avoid certain types of clothing, she can indeed affect her chances of being groped. Indeed, the woman might have several reasons in favor of wearing these let's call high-risk-clothes, but it is irrelevant to the point here. The price for wearing these clothes is the increased likelihood of being groped. It is a question of cost/benefit. Every woman makes her choice.
Let's try to account some of the major factors that affect your chances of being groped:
70% - Whether you are in crowded places - crowded buses, streets, dance clubs etc.
20% - Whether you are with any other males or not
10% - Nature of clothes you wear
Of course, I made up those numbers, and we will need some statistical data to make an assertion like the one above. My entire point is that: regardless of how important a factor clothing is, it does play a role, and gives you an oppurtinuity where you can affect your chances of being groped.
So, women do indeed have a role in reducing (not eliminating) the chances of being groped.
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Q. Is it right that woman are groped because of their clothes?
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A. Whether men should grope a woman just because she wearing certain kind of clothes, I will not answer. I will leave it to the moralists. What I will say is that, we all have a conception (a world free of gropers) of how the world ought to be, but our conception rarely matches the reality. You cannot directly control the actions of the men who grope you... perhaps you can reduce( not eliminate) the probability of it happening by doing the following:
1. Doing your campaign to raise awarness, and affecting people's sensibilties
2. Avoiding crowded places
3. Avoiding clothes the might elict this response
Of course, you would not like to do some actions (i.e., avoid certain types of clothes or crowded places) becasue the benefits might be high - your bus might be a cheapest mode of transport, even if travelling in it will increase your chances of being groped. You might enjoy wearing skin tight jeans (an an example), though you might enhance your chances of being groped. The choice is yours: And doing all the above are not going to eliminate being groped, they merely will reduce it... is the reduction enough for what you give up? Each women has her answer.
Nag Raj Fan Club
junk_alpha(at)yahoo.com
>> to attract- attraction- lends itself from being mutual.
You are wrong. It does not. I can be attarcted to you, without you being attracted to me. It is a very valid point that if you dress to attarct a certain someone, you will also run the risk of attracting someone else who you have intended to attarct. Unfortunately, exposed cleavge does not only catch the eye of your romantic interest, it will catch the eye of 90% of males who look at you.
Nag Raj Fan Club
What one wears is not for the sole purpose of attracting someone's interest... it is something i want to wear because i am cofortable in them, i feel good in them, i like myself in them... i find it strange that what one wears is attributed to someone else...
And I also get the feeling reading some of the above postings that there is an implicit acceptance of things the way they are- "We condemn groping but just too bad if you wear something or you are in place that invites groping" kind of idea...
And yes, don't forget that women are also sexual beings- we have our needs. While men can get away with groping and worse things we are not allowed even ligitimate expression of sexuality. And to Mr. Sathish i say, so what if a girl is acting provocative. Does it mean she has to be molested and raped? This is a Madonna- Whore syndrome... that a woman can either be "Ma" or she is a "maal"... a kind of sterotyping which does not allow men to view women as persons and the fastest way one can gauge a woman is by what she wears. if she is in low cut jeans/ trousers, she gets labels like "fast", chalu", "easy"......
Everybody gets into a tizzy about what women do. And i hate the term "for your own good..." For God's sake it is NOT for women's good we are talking about here...
Any woman irrespective of whether she is "respectable" or "disreputable" has a right to feel safe on the road, at home, at work and not have herself violated.
akhila
I must say that if we didn't have junk_alpha, we'd have to invent him. Rarely does something so shallow overflow so much. What I wonder is -
a. Has he any morals
b. If he does, what are they? Or is he merely a contrarian who's exercising a man's god-given right to show women their place?
c. Has HE ever done anything "useful", no matter how insignificant or useless, to further something he believes in?
It's easy to dispense with "provocative", "creative" and "utterly useless" advice, it becomes the upper middle-class Indian male well. How often the mirror is turned inwards though?
i find it odd, that you refuse to see the realisticness of what junk a says. he isn't supportive or unsupportive.it seems that he just observes and critisizes accordingly. why the mud slinging? doesn't he[<-i'm assuming] have the right to choose whether or not to make this his fight.
i applaud jasmeen's attempt at creating awareness. the law does accord women protection. i imagine that if the police came down harder on offenders, if women and men knew that they would, we would probably be one step closer to this ludicrously ideal world that j a goes on about.
Mr. Nagraj is an ass. what if Mr Nagraj your chest hair [yuck] got me all excited and my idea of expressing my excitement was to throw something at your privates. i have no right to violate you that way... even though you were in fact asking for it. showing your chest hair or stomache or nor arms or what ever it is that got me excited, like that. don't tell me that men cannot control themselves. our brothers, fathers, friends all do. it isn't impossible.
i disagree with Citrus. I think it was junk a that was mudslinging by calling this action "useless"... that's harsh! Whatever outcome the blank noise project brings, at least someone has shaken off passivity and done something!!! What gives you the right as a man (junk a) to be condescending towards a project created by women to take a stand and defend themselves??? If you care enough to comment on their activity, put that effort into constructive criticism and helping improve the project rather than being negative and pulling it down!
Please Don't Mistake me.
People avoid wearing jwellary while travelling in trains, but will not talk about the freedom ?
Some times its better to be cautious because you are not always surrounded by Ramu is a Good boy kinds.
Now about the freedom of choosing what you wear.
First of all I strongly condemn the very act of #$@$%#%$#$$ what ever you fill in here.
But, with a Question .. which I dont think is objectionalble. till now (May be till I hear any response from U)
I feel ashamed to walk by such a woman, is it really the freedom they think of when they wear such dresses ?
Please ...
I started supporting people because I have friends who dress well(I mean Indian and completely covered) yet being groped at.
So I am here to support you.
But I am not for those ... who wear 'economy', too less to cover any thing.
We in India, are not used to that Baywatch culture, and subminimal dressing.
Wear any thing but wear sufficient.
Dont give those idiots a chance to talk of you,
I will come and rescue you.
"what do you mean by the dresses are too exciting for men?are you implying that women should not be dressed in a way that theylike because men cannot control their sexual urge??"
Question well asked, debate is good with both sides raising good points. Wud like to add my word. There is something called liberty, something absolute liberty.
If you feel its your absolute right to dress however you feel like, I feel the same way, I have an absolute right to look anyway I feel like, and think in anyway I like.
You say you dont hurt me, I say I dont hurt you . I dont invade your personal space. All is at a distance - Ok thats fine as long I am not physically touching you. Is that fine?
Rest is all imagination - he is mentally stripping me like in Shool - 'man hi man hans raha tha.' how can you prove it. If you feel like it, the grow out of the feeling. You can feel any way you like but cant blame others for it.
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well this is for all those we-cant- help- it- men
who feel that if the woman has a right to wear whatever she feels like they have a right to do whatever they feel like.
few questions men-
there are certain tribal people all around the world, like the jarava tribes in the Andaman Nicobar Islands, the significance of these tribes is that... they do not wear any clothes at all i said NONE. i am not talking about sleevless or short blouses or tight or whatever garbage men here have claimed provokes them- the absence of few inches of clothing which they claim makes them commit heinous crimes like rape and murder.
you see the average height of a woman lets assume is about 5 feet. these women on their 5 feet frames wear nothing at all !! ok ??? get the pictr ???
and DO NOT find any evidence of any kind of crime committed against them by men of their tribe, (forget the indecent men- the proud product of our culture, they are hopeless )i do not think clothes or the absence of it conrtibutes to sexual haraasmnt there is more to it than "oh its her fault lets move on", - every victim knows this is not true !!!!
well this is for all those we-cant- help- it- men
who feel that if the woman has a right to wear whatever she feels like they have a right to do whatever they feel like.
few questions men-
there are certain tribal people all around the world, like the jarava tribes in the Andaman Nicobar Islands, the significance of these tribes is that... they do not wear any clothes at all i said NONE. i am not talking about sleevless or short blouses or tight or whatever garbage men here have claimed provokes them- the absence of few inches of clothing which they claim makes them commit heinous crimes like rape and murder.
you see the average height of a woman lets assume is about 5 feet. these women on their 5 feet frames wear nothing at all !! ok ??? get the pictr ???
and DO NOT find any evidence of any kind of crime committed against them by men of their tribe, (forget the indecent men- the proud product of our culture, they are hopeless )i do not think clothes or the absence of it conrtibutes to sexual haraasmnt there is more to it than "oh its her fault lets move on", - every victim knows this is not true !!!!
mr.nagraj is obviously still living in the stone age......jus answer me one q mr.nagraj....according to u a provocatively dressed girl is "asking for it"....going by ur argument....do women stand around and letch at a man who is cleaning the sewers??....last i remember those poor guys wear sumn even smaller than a regular underwear....or for tat matter of fact a cart pusher....hes bare bodied too....so y are'nt the women whistling at them or trying to grope them??
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